thenaturalinvestor
Charlie

I’ve read about the evolution of the Christian church’s view on usury, as well as the concept of “fair pricing” that was implemented by the early Church. This often relied on coercion to keep guilds aligned with a fixed price list, which distorted the free market. That seems similar to what you originally described as the negative effect of credit.
1. There are innumerable valuable things that are bought and sold (exchanged) that are based in the future, and therefore involve promises and abstraction, without being usury. For example: forwards, and investments in any asset with future potential use. That is effectively an exchange based on the promise that the asset will provide a certain amount of value. Will it? That depends on how events unfold. That’s the whole point of risk and reward.
Please go into depth about what is “concrete” and what is “abstract” in your view of the market, where one distorts and the other provides a signal. It sounds to me like a central command economy where you decide what actually has value. Does insurance not have value? There is comfort of mind in knowing that if something happens, there is a pool of capital contractually committed to cover you in that event. For example, many of the ships that sailed across the globe to spread Christianity would not have been financially viable if they hadn’t been insured.
With regard to the Bible verse: just because there are verses that explain how to treat a slave and how slaves should act more Christ-like, that does not condemn slavery. In many parts of the Bible, it does the opposite, placing each man in the same stature under the eyes of God. The verse I referenced explicitly condemns the servant for not placing the money in the bank to gain interest, so I don’t know how you are drawing similarities.
It’s also obvious that if there were no credit market—no people willing to risk their capital so entrepreneurs can compete to use it—the number of projects entrepreneurs could take on would reduce significantly. Would it be unethical for me to pay you a service fee for using your capital, because it allows me to start a company I’m dreaming about? Would you make that illegal in the Christian nation where you set the laws? I think the purpose of the capital matters, whether it’s for consumption or investment, and whether the interest compounds in perpetuity. There are certainly many nefarious credit lending practices that are unethical, but I still feel that not allowing citizens to pay a fee on borrowed capital seems communist like, and not Christ-like.

2026-01-21 03:40:30 UTC

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I think you’re conflating debt creation as it occurs in today’s banking system with debt in its pure sense: owing someone an amount over time, with an agreement to reward them for the time you’ve been allowed to use their capital.

2026-01-21 03:37:55 UTC

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The value isn’t the promise itself, but the probability that the promise is sound and will be kept. There is always a risk that it won’t be paid back.
For me to not have capital, and then to gain access to capital that I didn’t save, is very valuable. It saves me time. In fact, I’m willing to pay a certain amount for the time it saved me (interest). If I don’t repay that loan, I suffer by having to pay much more for the same service in the future. People won’t lend as cheaply as the risk increases.
Just because Bitcoin has a hard cap does not mean Bitcoin cannot be exchanged over time between parties who make promises to each other. Of course there will be bankruptcy and jubilees, it’s a part of life, and it appears throughout the Bible.
Matthew 25:27 (NIV)
“You should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.”
The “extra” is made through the entrepreneurial genius of the borrower. He uses the capital and his skill to earn more than he borrowed. Even if the supply is capped, this can still occur.
Will more defaults occur? Of course. Will there be even a fraction as much debt in the world? No, much less, due to the nature of the money. But credit markets will still exist.
I still don’t see how credit distorts markets if the source of the money comes from saving, rather than the creation of new money through debt. If anything, it helps the market self-regulate and find the true market interest rate

2026-01-19 22:31:41 UTC

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Those that are floated on the market yes, most are private and kept between two parties.

2026-01-18 20:29:59 UTC

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A bond is just, I save, and let someone else use my savings for a certain amount of time and for the ability to use my savings now they pay for that service which you can call interest. All on chain. I don’t know how I’m using future UTXO’s. I’m using a UTXO given to me in the promise that I give it back a long with another smaller UTXO that I earned thanks to being able to use the capital right now.
Just because fiat works by creating new money every time a loan is made, does not mean that all loans create new money.

2026-01-17 21:18:12 UTC

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I love getting into this.
I haven’t conflated equity and usury. Equity means the capitalist benefits on the upside, with technically no ceiling, if the entrepreneurial endeavour is successful, and either loses partially or wholly his capital if it’s a failure. A loan is indifferent to the economic outcome, but is a fixed percentage, like the bond you referenced.
Now, the loan could be collateralised with assets, or it could be based on the reputation of the loanee, or even on an entrepreneurial endeavour, where, if it’s successful, then the payout is given, but it’s senior to any equity payouts.
Now, with your example, there is no extra 10k sats that are conjured up, but the individual that took the loan would be expected to allocate the 100k in a way that the service or good provided generated income, after expenses, of 110k+ from individuals who held Bitcoin and decided to attain that good or service.
Due to Bitcoin’s deflationary nature, both parties will be much less likely to go into a loan agreement over five years, as they know the ability to repay will be much lower.
The main flaw in the argument is that you are assuming the sats will be able to be printed out of thin air the way the current credit system is, but once it’s time to settle, you need those sats on chain, and if you can’t pay your debts, there won’t be many people looking to loan you sats again.
Credit will still exist, just much shorter ranged, at lower interest rates, and more local, where the individual loaning may benefit in other ways than just the sats return. This will inevitably be a market that is demanded, as there will always be individuals who can provide a tonne of value with a specific amount of capital while not having saved for it yet, and loaners that want to be senior to equity and are willing to have a ceiling on their return.

2026-01-17 18:56:13 UTC

A value has been given to some code that is verified to have been worked for by guessing a number within a range.
To think this code will help organise our civilisation and help us take it from chaos to order will be one of the great stories of humanity.

2026-01-17 11:15:58 UTC

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I don’t mean the creation of money, but the ability to pay back more than what you borrowed due to the thrift that you showed in providing a service that clients were keen on paying more than the cost of production (including interest)
If you haven’t saved, and you’ve convinced a capitalist that you’d be able to put his capital to better use then him sitting on it, and you go for it then I don’t see the ethically incorrect aspect of that.
That agreement will come to be. Credit markets won’t look the same, in terms of the proportion of capital that comes from it, but it will exist, and wondering why it would be unethical?

2026-01-17 02:55:26 UTC

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Wow. The creation and maintenance of the nation state exists so credit can expand and sustain itself.
Does usury imply violence, in the way it functions today? Is interest moral if non payment leads only to reputational damage, with no coercion?
I know this has been debated for millennia, but making a credit market illegal is coercion in itself and there will always be demand for credit.

2026-01-15 10:54:47 UTC

Honest opinions on this?
https://blossom.primal.net/f97e76b812fac97c2b95081c705d9f1206bbbf2197aa42d0e0989a8be27da550.jpg

2026-01-11 13:57:43 UTC

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I know where it comes from. I believe it’s wisdom to apply that knowledge in the right scenario.

2026-01-10 23:51:50 UTC

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You’re wise and intelligent

2025-12-13 11:56:18 UTC

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What’s the volume? Must have to be high in order to reduce wait times, especially if you’re at a shop counter?

2025-12-13 11:52:49 UTC

Use it in an infinite number of ways.
Bitcoin is versatile.
https://blossom.primal.net/3a635c43d0320dacb9606db712fe93215172dfc0931236d923ce9e455d9bbf75.jpg

2025-12-09 13:44:37 UTC

The only thing that will prevent you from holding onto your Bitcoin is pure malpractice.
There are clear steps you can take that make holding onto your Bitcoin far more likely.
Seek out the knowledge and practices that keep your Bitcoin safe.
https://blossom.primal.net/35de4111e6e6c31bf1c83c8cf21eb801b24174d1c7ad82df5dbd257cdc6a5b6c.jpg

2025-11-25 17:49:06 UTC

A clear self-custody structure is one of the biggest factors separating an abundant future from one lived scrambling to make ends meet.
Just buying a hardware wallet and sending your Bitcoin there isn’t enough to guarantee long term access to your hard earned savings.
Bitcoin gives you sovereignty.
With that comes responsibility.
If you want your savings to serve you and your family for decades, you need:
• keys managed properly
• backups you can trust
• a structure that avoids single points of failure
• a plan your family can follow if anything ever happens to you
Build your Bitcoin Financial Framework with your future in mind. Sleep well knowing your Bitcoin will serve you well.
https://blossom.primal.net/27cf69c1a87412b31ae3c6fc78e440bcd0ccec5f0581015a32a2fef5048eef51.jpg
https://blossom.primal.net/bcff83591c722bd790b8f296734adf6f7641a4ca9bf1f0c2fa98703ab6dce57e.jpg

2025-11-21 13:45:43 UTC

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Bang on. Much easier to separate the wheat from the chaff. Noise is gone, fundamentals become the main topic.

2025-11-19 00:08:41 UTC

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Let’s go
#nevent1q…4xrd

2025-11-17 13:04:26 UTC

Capital markets need to open up to anyone being able to have a slice of any asset.
Would be great to have bodies dedicated to assessing the transparency of accounts and verifiability of assets to keep investors at ease as well.
We are in a global market now where anyone can serve anyone. High capital mobility.

2025-11-06 20:12:47 UTC

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What if you program an AI to encourage people to commit suicide succinctly? Should that be punished?

2025-10-23 13:01:02 UTC

What does it mean to take responsibility for your own money? Bitcoin is the first time that you can take full custody of your own property.
Due to it digital nature, how you manage the keys to your Bitcoin is paramount to its long term security.
Become a man, take self-custody.
https://blossom.primal.net/5a14548c7fff80efe46b37cd7c3326c75767ecf1fa4b455051d513120f5c682b.mov

2025-10-20 03:29:18 UTC

What if the figures you see on your screen are an illusion?
The idea that they can buy you what you want in the future might not be reality. The only way to make sure is to take responsibility for your own Bitcoin, through self-custody.
Bitcoin takes some effort to understand and a few steps to bring under your control, but the result is independent wealth and peace of mind.
https://blossom.primal.net/951feaa5b7afa1acc124932aed92e92e9b638d05ed7cd56b8edd068448df024e.mov

2025-10-16 00:34:31 UTC

Debasing money has corrupted society again and again throughout history.
This is our opportunity in bringing order and prosperity into society again setting the base value network to reflect truth instead of falsehood.
Move your life over to Bitcoin.
https://blossom.primal.net/55bab6ac47c7ab5e40bb561c345ea8f06ad9fea68c7f01f7af536409af8506d8.mov

2025-10-14 03:45:44 UTC

Bitcoin is the purest and scarcest money that has ever been.
You have the opportunity to understand and save in it, giving you the ability to free yourself from being robbed by the central banks that manipulate the money you pay taxes in.
Bitcoin is not an investment, but a way to save, transact and invest into what you value the most.
https://blossom.primal.net/2104bffb517b6ddcfba1ccd06cef14c74997977019829c1592a93a4f3926c5e8.mov

2025-10-07 01:58:36 UTC

Building up your Bitcoin demonstrates how over generations we can provide more for our descendants.
As we innovate and figure out how to produce more with less, we experience abundance.
Your job as a man is to build your capital up to serve greater and greater needs, and to finally pass those skills onto the next generation.
The best savings vehicle to do this with is Bitcoin. Scarce, immutable and digital. A secure way to build your legacy.
https://blossom.primal.net/72af7427c1c3376d6bf9268546b25ee71873e5f3bf5fb40f27427a7244090318.mov

2025-10-02 17:19:14 UTC

Due to Bitcoins eternal nature, your life will last less than the sats you save and steward.
Giving those sats a good purpose or intention, brings them ‘to life’ and makes the most out of them.
Divide up your savings into buckets, so they can serve you and your family better.
https://blossom.primal.net/639cecc580932364f0e9124ea5cfdebf47a6f96bc667c367915e59768e2fa41f.mov

2025-10-02 01:46:08 UTC

Man who builds wealth vs man who goes broke
Will you consume your earnings or save it for investment?
Saving has gone out of fashion due to the mass currency devaluation we’ve been experiencing.
Enter Bitcoin, made for real men who want to save for a productive future.
https://blossom.primal.net/ae7be129dadebfcae2adc54f05a0c119e71482be1a362b5ddf5dccc540262058.mov

2025-09-29 16:47:43 UTC

Build on bedrock
Build on Bitcoin
https://blossom.primal.net/ef2e765ca8a5af20c4554563e50819199d7d291d9b4c1d06ebea726c153a3ee6.mov

2025-09-29 16:46:51 UTC

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Wondering where you’re attaining your assumptions?

2025-09-27 05:15:45 UTC

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I’ve been living here 2 years man, human rights have been established, you have it wrong.

2025-09-24 16:43:36 UTC

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I believe if we live in the way that is right, this exact nature comes out in us as a man, it does not need to be forced but comes as a base instinct.

2025-09-24 05:58:13 UTC

The measure of a man
https://blossom.primal.net/426fdb333a2d9cb02da1c8a413ebff1b9856ac31a0b099fdddbe6bfb72b77aed.mov

2025-09-17 10:27:29 UTC

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Bible is pretty key

2025-09-07 16:39:56 UTC

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Very apt
#nevent1q…ugxv

2025-08-28 20:37:36 UTC

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Bible is also highly effective

2025-08-22 17:22:12 UTC

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Good work bro
https://blossom.primal.net/f683fa651f163aa716aae5a16edd30f58977150b98f71a4056cf8a1daf496d84.jpg

2025-08-19 18:32:19 UTC

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Exactly. The governments and banks were tied to not being able to spend more then they had, as the dollar was redeemable for gold, that meant, there was an inability to provide liquidity in a range of different areas. In the 20’s they had solidified the monopoly of the Federal Reserve and allowed for a lot of individuals to take out credit, but stocks on leverage e.g. 10x.
That created a highly leveraged market until it got to a stage that was unsustainable, The fed increased interest rates to rein in the crazy valuations and chaos ensued. The 30s was the unwinding of that leverage, which was gruesome.

2025-08-18 19:06:57 UTC

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They remained pegged to Gold. What got them out of it was a te valuation of the dollar with respect to gold.

2025-08-17 04:11:39 UTC

The idea that in the future when we have so much abundance, that money will cease to exist is a fallacy.
As long as scarce resources exist, there will be exchange occurring between humans, and as long as we have life, we have death, which implies scarce time, hence scarce resources.
Money will always be present, and now that we have something that reflects the scarce nature of time itself, we will be able to value and exchange value in the most natural and aligned way ever to have graced our species.
The consequences of having Bitcoin as our base money, is so astronomical and unimagined as of yet, that it leaves me in pure awe.

2025-08-17 04:07:25 UTC

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Todo intercambiable tiene una calidad de cierta porción de ‘dinero’ en cualquier mercado. Un mercado siempre va a existir cuando hay recursos escasos, y eso siempre habrá, ya que nuestro tiempo siempre es escaso a base de la certeza de muerte.
Siempre habrá dinero al haber muerte en la vida, y cuando no hay muerte, no habrá vida.

2025-08-17 04:02:38 UTC

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The girl in the middle

2025-08-14 01:13:47 UTC

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You’re shorting the dollar essentially so as long as you leave enough dry powder as a reserve to add collateral in case of a price tank, and you’re willing to wait out several years and be under water when the $ price remains under the price that you loaned at, it’s fairly sound.
I believe that’s what most property developers have done to acquire their big stack of real estate, except at better interest rates.
Things I would watch out for is assuming CAGR remains at 50% or so, and interest rates for dollar debt remains at 12%

2025-08-02 13:38:38 UTC

Clare Island, West of Ireland
https://blossom.primal.net/a0ab21c04370cbf8ec89c9739c0b6c51de2e5bd60ffc9598b67e5bac9c3c4e44.jpg

2025-07-13 16:59:14 UTC

In BTC terms, all fiat currencies are in terminal decay.

2025-07-05 19:40:37 UTC

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Como lo encontraste la clase?

2025-07-04 02:54:11 UTC

What you do shapes your economic reality.

2025-07-03 12:11:18 UTC

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If you ever want to earn sats, you better be spending them for your goods and services.

2025-06-27 14:43:39 UTC

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Deploying tools and businesses that serve bitcoiners

2025-06-26 16:41:05 UTC

Apps like Tando in Kenya are what will make a major difference in Bitcoin use.
https://tando.me
More people willing to use Bitcoin and ok with holding it, knowing they can use it in any store.

2025-06-24 17:08:47 UTC

Can I post something without an image?

2025-06-19 17:15:40 UTC

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Congrats Joe 👌🏼

2025-06-18 22:01:16 UTC

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Yeah, of course, it’s a work in progress but far from impossible to be realised.
We will still differ in our preferences on what is just or not (hopefully on the marginal topics), therefore I believe there will be, just like today a variance in the laws for each society, where if you want those laws to be enforced for you, you contribute to the specialist in law enforcement in your area. Due to the inability of monopolising money creation, there will be fierce economic entrepreneurial competition, only leaving the best.
Entities will be way better at what they do, we will be able to develop much more complex systems that rely on prices which are based on sats, being incorruptible.
I believe each individual will be able to delve much deeper into who they are and express their essence through their work, whatever form that takes.
Compassion will be much more prevalent, and ultimately we will be much more present beings, being able to come closer to God.

2025-06-18 14:16:56 UTC

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The highest quality goods start to permeate through local villages that sustain themselves around energy hotspots that monetise it through Bitcoin, people live 50% longer and families get bigger, we condense to a single language, and religions see eye to eye, we link up all philosophies and take out our disputes through cyberspace, we create various levels of societies on varying laws, all derived from god given rights which we agree on, music, art and sport evolve to become deeper, more nuanced and enriching.
We feel far deeper connections with those around us due to trust sky rocketing where cheating and lying have little return.
Society flows like water and we get the ability to bring out consciousness to other parts of the universe.

2025-06-18 14:09:13 UTC

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Solid

2025-06-18 08:29:11 UTC

Bad dreams are tough to take but it feels like a purge that can lead to brighter and better thoughts and dreams going forward

2025-06-12 00:41:04 UTC

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It doesn’t, you need to trust the person sending it to you

2025-06-10 00:34:04 UTC

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Where abouts? We have a plug here in El Zonte

2025-06-05 18:44:32 UTC

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Can relate. Market is very illiquid. Non-fungible stock.

2025-06-02 10:24:09 UTC

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Having individual liberty through the 12 words allows for each consciousness to decide for themselves what is best for them
This is extremely positive, but we need each other as both sides of the same coin. Putting central banks and men in the same category, as if they are both an unnecessary intermediary for ‘liberation’, comes across as unbalanced.
There is great wisdom in the traditions that our ancestors have passed on to our grandparents/parents, which is why we live and survive to this day.

2025-05-24 00:27:04 UTC

Less than 5 Bitcoin for this unbelievably developed coffee farm.
54 acres of boutique coffee at 1500m + in Bitcoin Berlín.
Coffee and Bitcoin country combined.
https://blossom.primal.net/2bf1d290ad9e71fab3b37a3029bd436bb625992e71476e8dab70e9ff44050501.mov

2025-05-17 13:16:22 UTC

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It’s already here
https://blossom.primal.net/647ba496ed208bcf79536d8a598e26ee84a0e09193dfd0af7179a59296b1b2d8.png

2025-05-15 13:33:04 UTC

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Every other desire to partake in anything that is not within the Nostr/BTC paradigm pales in comparison to the experiences and meaning that will arise from a society coordinating around a complete truth value perpetuating machine.

2025-05-14 02:51:01 UTC

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Nothing wrong with businesses saving and using it!

2025-05-14 02:47:59 UTC

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Hope you get what you need Dylan. Keep pushing for this.

2025-05-14 02:37:59 UTC

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On the money. It’s how you use it with respect to how much you have, and who / what you’re up against.
Classic poker decision making matrix. You’ll get blinded out if you don’t risk when the time is right.

2025-05-10 17:49:22 UTC

Hey, @nprofile…6266 Great recent podcast with @nprofile…xw4q
The long format allows you to go into deeper detail and provide the base for greater rationality on why the things are the way they are, as well as, why people think & act the way they do.
I just want to add, on the topic of medium of exchange:
For us to be able to transition to an MOE and unit of account, the liabilities and assets throughout an economic ecosystem (think town or city) must start to become denominated in sats.
The more debt liability tied to the place I imagine the harder it is to rip away from having to denominate these in dollars.
If Bitcoiners (who are long term) really saw this clearly they would be putting their time and due attention towards the already growing economic systems that are embedding this protocol as the new frame of reference.
Communities such as @nprofile…eys5 where there are minimum 2000 Lightning wallets being used daily (town of 20k people), where most essential and complimentary services and goods are exchanged for Bitcoin, while there are also several businesses that denominate their products in sats, and a growing, strong and mission driven bitcoiner community.
We are championing privacy, sovereignty, giving credits out in and denominated in Bitcoin, facilitating payrolls in Bitcoin, providing option of multi-sig custody for when a family member dies, Austrian economics as classes, embedding in the youth that the marginal cost of production goes to 0 and prices naturally fall looking through the lens of a finite monetary network backed justly by raw energy.
I challenge you and Ego Death, to come and see the community(ies) for yourself to nurture your viewpoint and get deeper within this framework; and to help bolster it out, if you believe you can. As this will be the base by which we will build the new world on Bitcoin.

2025-05-01 03:22:13 UTC

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The problem is the wanting to meddle and interfere with what you think is ‘random’ data. It may have a huge impact in society, amplifying the value of that particular UTXO spends. Each transaction is more valuable for the sender then the fee they choose to pay and if they make it into the block, that’s what they get.
It always depends on how deep you want to meddle with the rules I suppose.
At the end of the day it’s not about maximising the number of

2023-04-08 13:56:17 UTC

Español:
El dinero alcanza cuando no se roba
Inflación es un robo implícito que
ocurre al aumentar la cantidad de
dinero en el sistema.
La manera más adecuada de que no
te roben es encontrar manera de
vivir sin tener que usar el dinero
producido por el estado.
English:
There is enough money to go
around when it's not being stolen.
Inflation is an implicit theft that
occurs when the amount of money
in the system increases.
The most appropriate way to avoid
being stolen from is to find a way to
live without having to use state-
issued money.